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Postby firebird » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:39 pm

I would like to ask what do you believe in - maybe some religion, occultism, love, philosophy, whatever.
To make a start: I do believe in "science". I do not mean this rather technical way but the view at the stories told there. Man´s limited mind could not think of something similar. Every fantasy story seems boring and uninteresting compared to reality, as well as religions do, but nevertheless many people seem to prefer their own silly inventions. Maybe for the cause to make their self-made-stuff look interesting reality always is said to be boring, I don´t know.
So, what is your opinion?
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Postby Melkoroth » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:12 am

Im Pagan, well im trying to be.
Nowdays every pagan seems to be believing in their own "version" of paganism.
I believe that the gods are symbols of things you see in nature. And i also believe that experiences of your ancestors are stored in you, and i think paganism is a good way to celebrate that. Im European, and i think that tribal Europeans ( way before viking age) had a more honorable life than we have now. I also believe that the quality of our life and our strenght is getting worse every year and we as a mankind will get slapped hard in the future. We are not hurting the earth, but if earth starts to get pissed with us, "she" will take care of the problem and in few thousand years nature will return to normal.

But im only 19 years old so i cant say im 100% sure of what i believe in, im still discovering myself.No matter your belief, most people need some vision or a plan to live for.
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Postby firebird » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Well, has not everybody once been 19 years old :wink: ? And though I could not say I was 100% sure of what I believe I did say it anyway.
How do you think experiences of your ancestors get stored in you? (Surely not this strange ways some "lower" animals do :D ). To say something optimistic: I don´t think the process of mankind loosing strength runs this fast like every year, this process probably moves slower, as the change of generations within men is taking more than ten years. "Earth" and "nature" surely do not take care of a single species as we (most of us, at least) are not really concerned about what any bacteria living on our skin are doing. So both won´t be pissed, before they get to know that we exist (10.000 years of mankind´s existence are nothing compared to really important amounts of time), and men should stop taking themselves too important. WE will have a problem with ourselves soon, not the EARTH or NATURE - they have been here already a long time before us and will also still be here long after we have gone. Apart from this - what would you call "normal"?
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Postby Melkoroth » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:25 am

By normal i meant until the earth repairs the damage we did. What humans should realize is that we are not above nature, its nice to watch sci fi movies but most of these things would be impossible.... We need to concentrate on being in peace with this earth not to look to other planets that are so far away thats almost impossible to go there (almost seems similar a version of christian heaven) , the earth will go on without us without a problem, its up to us if we want to be accepted to live here (by the earth). I believe some of our ancestors experiences are stored somewhere (DNA, Brain and so on..) and also in our body (your body gets adapted to your natural habitat over generations)
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Postby firebird » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:56 pm

Men should realize their own limits but they never did, so I fear this thinking of limits only to be there to be broken is rooted deeply within our nature. No man will ever accept something being ahead without trying to overtake. Watching sci fi arises many questions so this is most interesting (for example: Why are there so many people, very well-educated? You cannot give 100% at your job (as a scientist, warrior, captain or whatever may be in that future) and raise intelligent, friendly, nice children also - the unnatural life in space may rather cause people getting insane psychopaths), Technically lots of those things might be possible (could we imagine smartphones 20 years ago?), but there´s still the human factor that causes many problems already now.
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Postby Melkoroth » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:27 pm

That why i like paganism, back then men knew their limits. But yeah..... tribal (pagan, before christianization) life was pretty hard and there was little comfort, i believe it was better for humanity but today almost no one would willing (save for few survivalists) to return to that way of life.

There a many questions about how people lived back in those days, there things that pagan tribes forged that scientists of today cant replicate, so i believe that we know very little of how life was back then (at least for Europeans ) But i believe they were not blood thirsty raiders.

But again, who knows ?
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Postby firebird » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:37 pm

Maybe men knew their limits but they also were sure they can overwhelm all limits ("Enormously is a lot but nothing more immense than men ..."ff, "Antigone", 442 b.c.). Though ancient greece may be much younger than the rise of european tribes this way of thinking never has changed and made people finally become rulers of the world. Pacifism and modesty are nice but they do not lead to the top of the ecosystem. As humanity now has arrived this position (at least it thinks so) it has become an obsolete dead-end-street of evolution. The problems we have now are mostly self-made. Our species is very high-evolved and therefore has very narrow specific needs (CO2-content, gravity, temperature, few radioactivity...) where the smallest change can cause a complete break-down (as with all complex systems), so men will extinct themselves being able to change their own environment but not being able to survive these changes.
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Postby Melkoroth » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:00 pm

We need to not replace things that are working only to get more comfort and we need an artificial hardship to make a civilization that will not make us weaker.

With all the shit thats happening in the world now we might as well return to the tribal times in the future. The civilization that does not harm us can be made but it sure is not the one we live in now.
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Postby firebird » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:04 pm

Obviously these are positive thoughts that things will get better once, but men did always think "it is bad now, but it must be better in the future". I do not think that people ever will be satisfied, but I do not know if there ever will be a return to former ways of living (if these concepts really did satisfy people they would not have changed it). People are ALWAYS dissatisfied with the status quo, they are made to solve problems, not to live in a world without problems.
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Postby Melkoroth » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:25 pm

We would return to that prior state only to try to make a civilization better than this one. But who knows ? Maybe there will no disaster and we will carry on livining in this system. Time will show.
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Postby firebird » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:16 pm

I am pretty sure we will carry on this way. The only thing that could change this would be a really serious catastrophe that forces the survivors to another way of life. Voluntarily done backward steps have never ever happened and never will, I am sure. Going back to take another direction would be helpful but won´t be done as turning backwards simply is not programmed within the machine called man.
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Postby Melkoroth » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:19 pm

Yeah, it makes sense that it is nature's "task" to set us back and tell us we fucked up, not ours. But im always going to choose to do the enviromentaly friendly thing rather than progressive one.
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Postby firebird » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:02 pm

That is a very nice way but - as with everything nice - will probably not succeed against other not-so-nice ways. Nice people only succeed in movies and novels, but never in real life. And, what I see often is the theory of "nature" being some kind of homogenic antagonist against men, but "nature" contains (supposedly) 14 millions of species which all are following their own interests. The thought of them all put together in a "nature flock" struggling against the "human flock" like two football teams fighting each other seems rather typical for social mammals (as humans are).
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Postby Melkoroth » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:01 pm

I believe it (nature) will succeed (:

Im tired of all this boredom, the last 100 years seem like a ballad.
We are animals, we are not gods, and i believe the longer we will live like the kings of the universe the more hard it will be to rise once we hit the ground.

The universe is endless, yet there is no alien civilization that got far enough to reach to us. I think there is a reason for that, nature wont let anyone go that far.
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Postby firebird » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:07 pm

Why only the last 100 years?

Still this sounds as if there was anyone ("nature", for example) who follows a plan, but I think there is no plan. Things happen without any reason, it is just us who try to see an artificial reason where there is none. Obviously this human habit led to the invention of several religions which also neglect the fact that our existence just is a completely insignificant coincidence.
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